Captain America: The First Avenger

Matt: Uncle Sam wants YOU - to talk about Captain America: The First Avenger!

Josh: hey

Matt: What's shakin'?

Josh: Nuthin' bacon

Ok lets do this turkey b4 things hit the fan again today

Matt: Well what did you think of Captain A?

Josh: Loved it

I'll start off by stating that ...

Stanley Tucci is to Capt. America what Alec Guiness was to Star Wars.

Having Tucci in the beginning of the film made any cheesy parts play gracefully.

His performance was so dialed down and sincere that anything big had more resonance when it happened.

Matt: I thought you meant in terms of the characters being mentors whose deaths inspire the leads on their journey, but I can see that too.

Josh: All that

On the page, yeah, he was the mentor character that died for the hero to become mature but it was the class that Tucci and Guiness brought to the films that brought weight to a film that could otherwise have been too light or silly.

Matt: I thought this film was the Marvel film that felt most firmly entrenched in the "Marvel Universe" - maybe because it is just the latest, and so was able to incorporate references to stuff we've seen in all the previous Marvel films so far (Iron Man 1 & 2, Thor, The Incredible Hulk).

I thought Howard Stark's entrance at the World's Fair, mirroring Tony Stark's at the trade show in Iron Man 2, complete w/ dancing girls, was great - showing off a prototype of a SHIELD flying car from the comics, in "hot rod red", no less, was a really nice link

Josh: Oh yeah, I didn't realize that was a SHIELD car

Very cool

All the references were great

and I probably missed a bunch

Matt: We also saw a mannequin in a big glass display case, in a red suit, featured prominently in the establishing shot of that scene - that was the original Human Torch from the forties who was an android who combusted upon contact with the air (hence he had to be kept in a glass case) - that was pure fanboy gold right there

Josh: Oh wow

Yeah, my problem there is I'm a geek, but not enough of a fanboy.

I loved how the uniform evolved and how they incorporated the original outfit

Matt: The first appearance of Arnim Zola as a big face on a TV screen was an obvious reference to the way he looks in the comics too - check this out.

So with all these early fanboy treats, I was half expecting to see Namor swim past in the scene where Steve went after the Hydra agent's escape sub!

No such luck though...

Josh: Heheh, yeah right

That's cool

Matt: As to the uniform, I thought it was clever to have the whole USO sequence, because it made the suit which he eventually winds up in seem like a bit more of a natural evolution.

Josh: Yeah, the way he took that dancer's helmet and had the bomber jacket...

Matt: On the other hand, one of the few negatives I found with the film was its pacing - it took a looong time for him to get into the suit and start kicking ass.

Josh: Everything about the Captain that was outside the super powers seemed totally believable. I liked how they spent so much time with the "before" Rogers so that when we saw him as the Capt. we really felt who he was, not just a generic hero. You almost SAW the little guy in the Captain.

I felt it was a big pay off.

If it was too soon it would have felt forced, I like how it was "earned" and every outlandish risk he took was backed up by the grenade scene in basic training.

Matt: Yeah that's true, but I thought the choice to show all this basic training stuff in full and then, once he becomes Cap, skip over his first few missions with a montage sequence was the wrong way to go. I would rather have had more time on him actually smashing Hydra bases and use the montage for the basic training stuff. More of him in the suit AS Cap, please!

Josh: I definitely agree that I wanted more stuff than that montage but I also feel any less of the skinny Steve stuff would have taken some of the heart out of it.

I think Chris Evans did a great job. both before and after the Capt. transformation. He had a lot riding on this, and I felt he had a good balance of poignancy and comic book fun.

Matt: I totally agree with you on the point that for this character to work, you need to see that it's the man and his soul, not the suit and powers, that makes him a hero, and I think Chris Evans did a fantastic job of portraying Steve Rogers' indomitable personality. So I'm with you on that point. I thought the way he played the scene with Steve in modern day Times Square was great, and totally in line with the character we saw as a skinny guy in the alley at the very beginning - even this huge curveball (waking up in the future) wasn't going to scare him

Josh: I thought the FX were great. you could tell in spots that skinny Steve was a bit off, but it was minimal. I was talking about how the composites in Ghostbusters (one of my favorite films) were so bad, and we don't disparage that at all. I'm not gonna mince about something being 95% or so good. I'm glad they did it the way they did, it really made you feel for who he was. and how he was. and who he is.

Matt: Oh my God, yeah! The FX were great, and actually had me wondering "how did they do that?" in some shots, which I haven't done since I was a kid! So "bravo" to all involved on that score.

I wanted to talk about Hugo Weaving as the Red Skull, since we praised Evans' performance.

I thought he was great.

Josh: Oh yeah!

Again, I was glad they spent so much time before we saw him as the Red Skull, so by the time we saw him, we could relate to him.

He has so much power behind his eyes doing almost nothing, it made the makeup really work

Matt: His accent (to my ears, at least) sounded very authentic, not at all the "evil German" cliched accent you'd expect - reminded me of Werner Herzog. A native German speaker may disagree with me, however....

Josh: I TOTALLY thought of Werner Herzog, that's so funny!

Man, we are nerds...

Matt: "Go the fuck to SLEEP"

Josh: Yeah, his acting pulled that off, it could have really come off bad.

Matt: I agree with you about showing him without make-up, but I was also glad they gave the make-up equal screen time - again, Marvel Films really gives the audience what they want in terms of faithfulness to the comics

It was like the comic come to life!

Josh: Yeah, same here, he's the Red Skull 'cause he's got a red skull. I also liked how there was a somewhat ethereal element to his transformation, it wasn't just some gross-out face of a guy whose face came off.

I hated it in Spider-Man and Iron Man how they have the mask come off at the end because it's the climax of the film and we need to see them emote.

Matt: One thing I liked about the film is that it wasn't one of those super-hero films where they felt the need to humanize the villain or show us his complex motivation. It was kind of a throwback to the days when it was fine to say the villain wanted to take over the world, without showing us how "he would have been a good guy if only he hadn't lost his Woobie at age 3". Kind of like a vintage Bond villain or something in that respect.

Josh: lol

Matt: That choice enabled more time to build up Steve Rogers' character.

Josh: Although, Woobies are good motivators and the fact he was a Nazi helped that along

Matt: Well, yeah, I was going to say, it's hard to make Nazis sympathetic, so why even try? That wasn't the point of this story...

Josh: Yeah

I also liked the balance between reality and fantasy that the film had. Since it was a period piece, it had a heightened look that felt romanticised. It was just enough but not over the top. and I think that's what made it really work, like it was from a bygone era. Whereas Iron Man felt very realistic and current. but that is also what Iron Man is. That's another reason I'm really looking forward to THE AVENGERS, Steve Rogers will feel like such a fish out of water, it'll be great.

Matt: Yeah, I was just going to say how I thought it evoked the 40s really, really well. It really immersed you in that world. It worked so well for me that in the scene where Peggy Carter shows up in that red dress in the bar before the mission, after only seeing her in uniform up to that point, I had a genuine "va-va-voom" moment! By today's standards, the dress she was wearing was very tame, but I was so immersed in that world by that point that I actually reacted to her in that dress that same way the characters did!

Josh: Heheh. cool

Everything really felt of the time without being put on. it was great

Matt: Yes, exactly.

Josh: I thought the Bucky character was great. I didn't know much about him other than him being an old man in The Ultimates comic, so he always sounded kind of corny to me. but I thought he was a really great, fleshed-out character, that was pretty cool himself. and not like a lame Fonz wanna-be

Matt: It was a nice touch that they also had him in a practical, "real" world version of the blue tunic he wore in the comic, too

Josh: Wait, which what are you talking about

Matt: On the mission where he died, he was wearing a sort of double-breasted dark blue jacket that I'm pretty sure took its design cues from his classic costume.

Josh: Ah, ok yeah, very cool

I wasn't aware of that

Matt: ...yeah, my brain is a geek knowledge storehouse

It was great the way the script flipped the dynamic between Steve and Bucky once Captain America was "born" - Bucky had become the second-banana (I'm even using 40s-era expressions now! Who'da thunk it?) after starting the film as the top dog…

Josh: That's what I mean, they really made him a cool guy, not a Robin-esque sidekick

I liked that switch too.

It also made Steve not seem like a dork when he was small, just a little guy

An underdog

Matt: Right, exactly

Josh: He was a cool guy himself

Really cool, in fact. That whole "I could do this all day" bit was great!

Matt: There were only a couple of things I didn't like about the film, and they weren't major obstacles to my enjoyment, but one was the actor playing Howard Stark. His accent was all over the place. I just kept thinking "they couldn't find ANY American actor who could play this small role?"

I'm pretty sure he was British

Josh: I was wondering that or was it that he was doing the 1940's thing

I'm usually really sensitive to accent stuff and it didn't bother me but I know what you mean

Matt: Yeah, maybe, but I thought for a character who's supposed to be the quintessential American industrialist... could have been cast better. Not a big deal though.

Josh: Yeah

Matt: I thought the Howling Commandos were kind of goofy, especially Dum-Dum Dugan. He looked ridiculous with those rank stripes on the front of his bowler hat. This was one of those things that worked fine as a drawing but not so much in real life.

Thankfully they were not in it that much.

Josh: Oh, right

I was wondering about that too

Since I wasn't too familiar, I figured it must be a comic book thing

The actors that played them, well at least that guy and Derek Luke, they're pretty big faces to be in such small roles

Matt: That French guy was kind of a cliche too, but that's basically the nature of those characters. They may as well have been called "The Howling Racial/Ethnic Stereotypes"

Josh: LOLOL Hogan Heroes alright!

Matt: Yeah, exactly. The Derek Luke guy was the only one who they broke out of that a bit, with the line about him being from Sacramento. They really needed someone to address Dum-Dum Dugan, "so, uh, what's with the bowler hat?" ... he was like the 40s version of a hipster douchebag.

Josh: lol!

And who lets an enlisted man wear a hat like that?

Matt: Complete affectation... handlebar mustache as well... yeesh

Josh: There was probably more stuff that had to be cut

Maybe there was more stuff that they ended up putting in the montage too. It wasn't a short movie

Matt: Tommy Lee Jones would have set him straight!! He doesn't put up with that crap!

Josh: That's right

Tommy Lee does it again though, huh?

Right out of The Fugitive

Great stuff

Matt: Yeah, he's one of those guys that never overdoes it.

Josh: I only had one real gripe and the more I thought about it the more I think it's okay. It was the kiss. How time stopped on the edge of a cliff for the cheesy romantic bit. BUT I then thought, this is a guy who's never been out on a date, ignored and put down. He finally has a connection with a woman and even though he may not have been expecting it, it may have been the only real kiss he'd ever had, so for him, time did stop in that moment. It affected him enough to be sad about missing a date after being frozen for 70 years.
I also didn't like how the car almost went off the cliff at the end of that scene, the most cliche bit that ever existed. Cap could have stopped the car with his shield or done something. I guess he needed the shield in the Red Skull fight. Whatever, more runway then. anything but that.

Matt: Yeah, I see what you mean, but I think the counterpoint to that argument is that the setting of the film and the style of it was all harking back to another time, so I think I was able to forgive that and see it more as "classic" rather than "cliched".

Josh: Yeah, I know, it's acceptable, it just sticks out to me

The car thing more than the kiss

Matt: Yeah, I admit that it was one of those things we've seen a million times before, and I thought so while watching it, but overall it was a really fun superhero movie. I have to admit, I wasn't expecting a film this good, so it was a great surprise.

Did you stay after the credits to see the teaser trailer for The Avengers?

Josh: Yes!

Matt: And?

Joshua: Looks good!

I thought the boxing scene at the end was really cool

Matt: Yeah, I'm excited!

Josh: And The Avengers looks like a good ride

Now that we HAVE seen all these characters on their own, we know the context of them being together

I gotta admit, I wasn't all that stoked to see it until after I saw Capt. America

Matt: No, I had my doubts, but it looks like it will be a lot of fun.

It looks like they've got Thor in a sleeveless costume like his classic Kirby design.

Oh, that reminds me - still no "Kirby dots" effect in this movie!! Come on, Marvel Films! I want to see what that would look like in three dimensions! The Red Skull's final scene was the perfect place for it, but still no such luck. Oh well, maybe The Avengers will be the one...

Josh: Heheh

I'm looking forward to scenes with Tony Stark and Steve Rogers

Oh yeah, another thing!

When he runs out into Times Square at the end! It was totally like something out of Blade Runner, and it was real!

Crazy!

You look at Blade Runner and say it's cool, but way over the top

But, there it was

Matt: Yeah, that was great. And like I said before, his reaction was perfectly in line with the stoicism we'd seen all through the movie.

Because I would probably lose it at that point if it was me.

Josh: Uh-huh, it was great. I want to see it again


Matt: Yeah, I wasn't expecting such a good movie, I'll probably get it on Blu-Ray when it comes out.

Josh: I'll get the Blu-ray if a dvd comes with it.

Well, there we have it I think

oh wait

The shield was AWESOME. I had a shield made out of thick cardboard as a kid and I used the hell out of that thing. All the stuff they did with it, too, was right on the money, like Wolverine's claws. not too over the top but just the right combination of crazy and cool. What we've been waiting to see since we were kids

Matt: Yes! How could we not talk about the shield? Yeah, it was treated perfectly - the way they introduced it, and even the way they set up the fact that he needed some kind of shield when he was chasing the Hydra agent and used the door from the cab. Then they didn't overuse the effect or the "bit" of him throwing it, so you never got sick of it. It was handled really well.

I don't know about you, but it left me wanting more, I can't wait to see Cap in action again now that we have the origin out of the way. I hope there's a sequel. Maybe they could do the Winter Soldier storyline... (sorry to get all fanboy on you)

Josh: Yeah I always hear about Winter Soldier, but I don't know about him

I'd love a sequel, but I don't know about it in modern day

It was a whole vibe that I liked

I'm looking forward to The Avengers

and I want more

I'm just grateful it was so good

Matt: Yeah, me too. Alright then, I think that's a wrap!